Randy Pitchford on Borderlands: cheating, art direction, DLC and... oompa loompas
Interview by Dan Cheer (11/09/09)
As well as visiting a Sydney gay bar and playing Borderlands this week, we also got the chance to talk to Gearbox head honcho Randy Pitchford. We put some questions to him about the game.
GP: What anti-cheating measures have you got planned for the PC release?
RP: Well, you know, cheating is like an arms race. It’s very difficult to anticipate what these guys are going to do. So our strategy is to see what they’re going to do, then go from there. For example, Borderlands as you play it now, it’s a shooter. You know, you can play it by yourself, or it’s a co-operative game, you can play it with friends. And it’s about growing your character and getting loot. You know, I remember when I played Diablo – did you play Diablo?
GP: For sure.
RP: I loved that game. I played like 300 hours. But one thing that really pissed me off – I played that game single-player and I finished the game. Then I’m like, I want to take my character online now. So I went to play multiplayer and they said no, sorry, multiplayer is totally different and you have to start a new character. And I’m like, what the hell is that crap? So I kind of dug into it a bit, went on the forums, and said why are you guys doing this? And they said, by making it a separate thing, we’re able to control the server. And it helps us fight against cheaters. And guess what? There were still cheaters. It didn’t protect anything.
o, they hindered my usability as a customer by separating the single-player from the multiplayer, and it didn’t really help anything. There was still cheating. So I think they learned something from that. So I think with how they do it with World of Warcraft, there’s an action and a reaction. If someone does something, you know what? Don’t do that. We’re going to smack you down and either ban people or shut it down. It’s an arms race. So we’re going to have to see what happens, and react. That’s our strategy. Because if you try to pre-empt, you’ll change things in a way that’s bad for the players. It’s a solid game, it’s put together well, we’ll launch it then see what people do. If there are people out there that are really intent on ruining peoples experiences, we’re going to have to go in there and take care of them. That might be banning them, or patching the game, fixing whatever holes they’ve found, or a number of different strategies depending on what they do.
GP: Speaking of World of Warcraft, I was just playing Borderlands multiplayer and there’s an instance where you have to collect crystals. It looks and plays very much like a Warcraft dungeon...
RP: Instances, yeah, we call ‘em “doglegs”. That one was a very simple one, we just chose it for you guys because there’s no bosses at the end of it. Many of them have bosses so you can get loot drops, but we used this one because it’s a great place for random people who have never played the game to just get in and kill some stuff. It works well in this situation. But you know, if you ever go into a World of Warcraft instance, to really succeed, everyone has to work together. Everyone has to play their part. If you go into an instance and vastly outlevel it, you can take care of it, you’ll be really powerful. So there are real similarities there between Borderlands and World of Warcraft.
GP: So lots of people are talking about the long production cycle, and how the artwork was changed. Did the artwork change allow you to go over the fundamentals of the game?
RP: It actually happened in reverse! (laughs) We made the decision in 2008, right after we came back from E3, we knew that what we were doing, starting with a shooter, and laying things on top, was fun. It was working. We knew this was going to be great. At the time, the game was a little more linear, more of a traditional first person shooter. We only had three character classes, and the world wasn’t so large, and there were no side-missions. So we made the decision to delay the game to October 2009 and build a plan to make the world larger, and add another character class – because we needed a tech class – so let’s make a more open world and still have a linear path. Let’s make it a large connected world where you still have the freedom to explore, and discover, and have a choice, and grow - let’s do that.
And we planned that all out, so OK, this meant we had to delay until October 2009. So our artists were like, "hey, that’s cool, but we’re kind of done here! So, like, what are we going to do?" And a few of them were like, "we were never really happy with this anyway." Because we started with all these amazing concepts – we had this concept art that was over the top, had all this attitude, and all this personality – then when we built it, it was a safe, kind of realism thing. So it was like, how do we get that personality and attitude back?
So a few of them, without me even knowing about it, actually went off to the side and started playing around with it, trying to render the graphic art style into the concept art style in the game engine. By the time I got wind they were up to something, I had no idea what they were doing. But they’d already spent some time doing it, so I made a deal with them – I said, "I don’t know what you guys are doing, but you have three weeks, then I’m making a decision." And I only did that because I knew if I stopped them right then, I’d crush their souls! (laughs)
I was hoping over the three weeks they’d give up, but they didn’t. They doubled down. They worked hardcore and they made this prototype, and I looked at it and I remember going into the meeting – and I hadn’t even seen it yet – and I thought, I don’t know what they’re doing but I’m going to have to shut this down. All I knew was that what they were doing meant we’d have to change all the art. And I went in there and I saw it, and I’m like this is freaking cool man, I’d never seen anything like this. So it was awesome. And what came to my mind was, have you ever seen auto makers when they make those concept cars? They’re awesome. They have all this style, but have you ever driven one? They never frikken build one. So we were doing the same thing. All this crazy, over-the-top concept art, like all these crazy characters and all the style in that, we made the same thing. And our artists, they weren’t going to stand for it. They did a kind of insurgency, a rebellion, and they brought back the concept. And I’m thankful because they did amazing work, they proved they could do it, they proved it was awesome. So that’s what we have today.
GP: I also noticed the music in the game is pretty out there as well, what team have you got working on that?
RP: Raison Varner – he’s one of our directors at Gearbox, he directed all the audio for Borderlands, he composed a lot of the music, there’s some audio he got from other composers but most of the audio is his stuff, stuff he did. It’s amazing stuff, brilliant. He’s a great composer and musician. He’s done a lot of great work for Gearbox over the years. That guy is awesome.
GP: Are you talking about DLC yet, or is it a bit soon?
RP: Yeah, we haven’t announced any yet, but we’re definitely doing it. Right now we’re just focused on shipping the game, but we have people now wheeling off, they’re done. And we’re not done, we’re loving it. So we’re starting to draft out our DLC, and working on it. What we’ve got so far, what we’re planning is pretty awesome, and I think we’ll probably announce it right before the game launches. Maybe even at our launch party on October 17th. I think at that time, it’ll be a good point to announce what we’re doing, because by that point we’ll know. Our passion and momentum right now is pretty high, so I think we’re really going to surprise people with some cool stuff. But it’s not just one thing either, I’m committed to doing a bunch of stuff this year, and into next year.
GP: So can you tell us a bit about what it’s actually like to work at Gearbox? Are you pretty laid back?
RP: Well, first of all, it’s pretty tough, because we have all the oompa loompas running around... and you have to get across the chocolate river. (laughs) I mean, it’s a development studio, so we have a huge number of awesome, creative people. I wish when I was doing these kind of things I could talk about the awesome talent, because I’m fortunate enough that I get to go around talking to people like you, and I get to brag about the games, but I didn’t make the game by myself. I’m just a small part of a machine full of amazing talent, and my job is supposed to be about enabling that talent to come through, and you know, I help settle arguments and I help steer direction, and I always like to get my hands dirty, but work like this doesn’t happen without a large number of amazing guys.
What’s neat about an environment full of creative people is that everyone has crazy ideas, and not all of them are compatible, so a lot of them try stuff and sometimes things come from strange places, like this robot character. We call him Clap Trap. He wasn’t even in the game for the longest time. He was a character that one of our concept artists created off to the side, not even for the game. Just an interesting little character. We thought we could do something with him, so we started to play with him and we thought about what sort of personality he could have, to make him really interesting. Have you ever seen Total Recall? You remember the Johnny Cab? So this guy, he’s lit on fire, but he’s always got this cheery attitude, so we just thought that was hilarious. We kind of borrowed that personality and put it on this little robot dude, and he became a character in the game. He’s so fun, and the voice actor nailed it, he did a great job, and we thought – you know what, it’d be great to have him as the character that kind of helps you through the world. That didn’t happen because of me, that happened because great creative people were working together.
GP: So did you get a voice cameo in the game at all?
RP: Yeah! I’ve actually done a couple of things. (laughs) I’m not going to say what... because I’m not my own voice... but we had a lot of fun with this game. One of the neat things about the game is that it doesn’t take itself too seriously, we were able to cut loose and get silly with a lot of stuff. It’s been fun to work on.
GP: So where did the initial idea for Borderlands come from? Did it just occur to you one day that you wanted to do this type of game?
RP: Well, game design usually starts from one point, either story, style or design. Style might be like a graphic look, story might be who, why, when or where. And design might be what kind of gameplay you’re looking for. Borderlands started from a design vector. The idea was talked about between myself and other people at Gearbox over a decade – it probably pre-dates Gearbox. The fundamental idea was to take a fun FPS game, a fun shooter and lay on top of it a fun role playing game, where you could collect loot and level up, get skills, those things had never effectively been blended together.
We knew shooters were fun, we’d been building shooters for our entire careers, but to make it insanely compelling we could add loot, levelling up – like Diablo; at the end of the day, if you saw an icon, you’d click it. The skill to play the game is the same skill to launch the application (laughs), but I don’t care, I want another sword! I want to level up! I want a new skill. And so, shooters are the opposite. Gordon Freeman, Master Chief, they finish the game the same person they started.
So the core idea was what if we blended those two things together? The compulsion of loot, levelling up, developing skills, blend that into the fun, moment-to-moment action. That was the idea. We committed to doing it just after we shipped Brothers in Arms Road to Hill 30, the first half of 2005. We did about six to eight months, then we started looking at publishing partners, and we ended up doing a deal with 2K Games to publish it. And we’ve been in development for over four years.
To find out more about Borderlands, be sure to read our hands-on preview.
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